but here we have us against them and us against us. so these special sections that was a great advertising boom, they were short on content sometimes. in my book i used the term "the times" light. what happens, they would dummy down these sections. if you read the sections, sometimes you know, they are extremely prolific, and they have no point. there are some strong articles on alzheimer's and things like that, but there is also some stuff there that is a really soft. but this helped "the times" immeasurably. helped contribute to prosperity. rosendahl, he was an iconic editor. first of all -- well, for three reasons. i will say a bit about rosenthal. the three reasons are, first, the pentagon papers. even though he was actually conservative -- he came from a montreal immigrant jewish family, the first jewish editor. i talk about the jewish stop quite a bit in the book because the sulzberger's were the most this assimilated jews, under play the holocaust, and talk about that. -- and apologized for that in the 1980's. rosenthal -- penta